Velocity Frequent Flyer members have access to a rare, coveted feature – the ability to exchange points with Singapore Airlines KrisFlyer. Even better, the rate hasn’t changed from pre-COVID. It’s still 1.55 Velocity Points to one KrisFlyer mile, with a minimum transfer of 5,000 Velocity Points.
This is one of the most unique features of the partnership between Velocity Frequent Flyer and the Singapore Airlines KrisFlyer program, and we’re certainly glad that it’s back.
How do I transfer points from Velocity to KrisFlyer?
- Go to the ‘Airline Points transfer’ page on the ‘Member Benefits’ section of the Velocity website.
- Link your Velocity and KrisFlyer accounts if you haven’t already done so.
- Choose the number of Velocity Points to send over.
- Click on ‘Transfer Now’ to complete the transfer.
- The KrisFlyer miles should transfer instantly, but it may take up to 24 hours.
Note that there is a minimum points transfer of 5,000 Velocity Points to KrisFlyer. And keep an eye on the calendar, because KrisFlyer miles expire three years after they are earned.
Why should I transfer points between Velocity and KrisFlyer?
The ability to transfer points from Virgin Australia’s Velocity program to Singapore Airlines’ KrisFlyer has been available since November 2014 (with a two-year pause during COVID). It’s one of the only frequent flyer program partnerships in the world that allows you to transfer your points between programs. (Another major example is British Airways, Qatar Airways and Iberia).
You can transfer points/miles in either direction at a rate of 1.55 points/miles in the origin program, equating to one point/mile in the destination program. Note that you can’t reverse a transfer – if you transfer the points back to the original program, you’ll lose another hit in the conversion rate.
For example, when you transfer 155,000 Velocity Points, you’ll get 100,000 KrisFlyer miles. But if you transfer those KrisFlyer miles back to Velocity, you’ll only end up with 64,516 Velocity Points.
American Express Velocity Platinum
- Sign-up Bonus:
- Up to 100,000 bonus Velocity Points¹
- Rewards Earn Rate:
- 1.25 Velocity Points earned per $1 on all eligible spend except for government bodies⁵. 2.25 Velocity Points per $1 spent on selected Virgin Australia purchases⁵. 0.5 Velocity Points per $1 on Government spend⁵
- Annual Fee:
- $440 p.a.
- Offer expires
- 30 April 2026
- The American Express Velocity Platinum Card has 70,000 bonus Velocity Points on offer for new American Express Card Members who apply, are approved and spend $5,000 on eligible purchases within the first 3 months of approval, plus an additional 30,000 Velocity Points when you spend a minimum of $1 on your Card within 90 days of paying your second year annual Card Fee¹. (Offer ends 30 April 2026. New Amex Card Members only. T&Cs apply.) Includes several perks such as Virgin Australia Lounge Access² every time you fly domestically with Virgin Australia, 2 VA Guest Lounge Passes³ each year and a Complimentary Domestic Return Virgin Australia Flight⁷.
Why make a transfer from Velocity to KrisFlyer?
The ability to transfer points between the programs is most useful for Australia-based Velocity members. It isn’t too hard to amass a chunky Velocity balance given the aggressive way they have acquired partners and offered points-earning opportunities to compete with Qantas Frequent Flyer.
1. To access more Singapore Airlines seats
While you can use your Velocity Points for travel on Singapore Airlines in all cabins, better award availability is usually given to KrisFlyer members.
If you want to book a flight in Suites, First or Business Class, then you may not be able to do so through Velocity. In that case, you should transfer your points to KrisFlyer.
Singapore Airlines has a superb international network and inflight product, which are available at excellent redemption rates. That’s along with good availability in most cases for flights in Business and First Class. Plus, you won’t pay fuel surcharges on KrisFlyer redemptions for Singapore Airlines flights.
2. To book seats earlier
KrisFlyer opens its award calendar 355 days before departure, whereas Velocity members have to wait until 330 days. That means that KrisFlyer members are at an advantage as they can snap up the seats more quickly. Especially in this day and age where reward seats are in huge demand, early access is important.
3. To access Star Alliance partner airlines
By transferring Velocity Points to KrisFlyer, you open a new world of redemptions with Star Alliance. Make sure you browse the award charts or price up the booking online before you transfer, to see if the number of Velocity Points required is worth it. Do note that KrisFlyer award rates for Star Alliance partners are higher than with Singapore Airlines.
4. Save money on carrier charges
Velocity Frequent Flyer now levies a carrier charge of up to US$150 per sector for Singapore Airlines flights. For example, Sydney-Singapore-London in Business Class would incur US$240 in carrier charges each way.
But by transferring your Velocity Points to KrisFlyer, you could escape those unnecessary fees and only pay the true taxes and fees on the reward.
Note: There are many cases where it might not be worth transferring points from Velocity to KrisFlyer just to save on carrier charges, as you’ll then lose points in the conversion process. Be sure to work out how many more points you’d spend and how much you’d save to see if it’s worth it to you.
5. You can book a round-the-world ticket
Velocity does not directly offer a redemption option for round-the-world trips. However, Singapore Airlines does – for 280,000 KrisFlyer miles from 1 August 2022. That means you can transfer 434,000 Velocity Points over to KrisFlyer to take advantage of this option.
Note: the higher price of 280,000 miles in Business Class has not yet been updated in all of our guides.
Summing up
The ability to transfer points between Velocity Frequent Flyer and Singapore Airlines KrisFlyer is unique. Not many other programs allow this, so we’re very glad it’s back in action.
The main reason you’d do this would be to access increased award availability for Singapore Airlines flights. However, transfers can also make sense to save on carrier charges, book a round-the-world ticket or top up your KrisFlyer balance.
Just make sure that you understand that points do not transfer over 1:1. The rate is 1.55 to one in either direction. And once the miles land in your KrisFlyer account, you only have three years to use them before they expire.
Frequently asked questions
Yes, you can. This unique partnership converts 1.55 points/miles to 1 point/mile in the other program. That means that you do lose value in transferring your points between these two programs. However, it can be useful to top up your balance for a redemption or to access more award availability.
No, you cannot. Velocity and Qantas are direct competitors, which means that points in their frequent flyer programs cannot be transferred back and forth. However, Velocity Points can be transferred to Singapore Airlines KrisFlyer.
Very few frequent flyer programs allow you to convert or share points. However, Velocity Frequent Flyer and Singapore Airlines KrisFlyer allow this. In addition, Avios can be transferred between British Airways Executive Club, Iberia Plus and AerClub.
Yes, you have a number of options to transfer Velocity Points. You can perform a Family Transfer of a minimum of 5,000 points to a family member. A more effective way to do this is to set up Family Pooling. You can also transfer your Velocity Points to Singapore Airlines’ KrisFlyer frequent flyer program.
Yes, you can. Singapore Airlines is a Velocity Frequent Flyer partner. Its flights fall into Table 2 of the Velocity award chart. However, you may find that award availability is limited for Velocity members. In that case, it may make sense for you to transfer your Velocity Points to Singapore Airlines’ KrisFlyer frequent flyer program.
No, you cannot. However, you can use Etihad Guest miles for redemptions on Virgin Australia flights. Conversely, you can also use Velocity Points for Etihad flights. However, do watch out for the hefty Etihad Airways Reward Seat Carrier Charge.
Hi Brandon
Velocity has a 40% discount on buying Velocity points currently (July 2024) and i am considering this for a number of reasons. It says in the terms and condition points are to be used for buying rewards – however I’m wanting to move them to Krisflyer. If they just top up my velocity balance
do you know if they can manage how they are spent?
Hi David, to the best of our knowledge, Velocity would be unlikely to stop you from moving points to KrisFlyer.
It seems Velocity has paused or discontinued this transfer option again. 🙁
It is nowhere on the Velocity website anymore.
Actually, I finally found how to get there! Here are the new steps:
Top right corner, click on Velocity Points count
In drop down, select My Velocity
In right menu, click on Connect to partners
In Krisflyer box, click on Transfer Points
This is very helpful Eveliene – PointHacks should update their steps to reflect yours!
Evaliene, your May 2023 solution still works in August 2025, I’m delighted to say (your 2.24 pm second post).
I was going around and around the Virgin/Velocity website this afternoon getting increasingly frustrated/angry. They clearly are not trying to be helpful.
Then I did a DuckDuckGo websearch on transferring Velocity to KrisFlyer and discovered Brandon’s post. Even using the URL he gave didn’t work, just got me back to my Velocity login page. But your 4 steps got me there. Very happy.
Hi Brandon,
I am trying to book a business class trip to Seoul via Velocity. Seems like I can book a mix fare class? Eg: economy from Brisbane and business from Seoul on SQ?
And I saw it has a VA flight code, although it said Singapore Airline. Does this also mean this is codeshare flight? And actual flight will be SQ flight?
I also read your article about SQ Book a Cook for Business class. When you book business class SQ flight via velocity, will you be able to Book a Cook?
And once you book reward seat at Velocity, can you change or cancel? Any fee?
Is your reward seat confirm immediately?
For Business class reward seat, does it come with Business class lounge access?
Sorry, I am new and nerve wracking try to book Business reward seats for 2 to Seoul from Brisbane. Not much availability and so hard to find in Velocity. I can see the spot in SQ but not in Velocity.
I don’t hv enough points for return if transfer to Krisflyer.
I think it would be nice if you guys can run an all you need to know article about booking Business reward seat on Velocity for partner airline like SQ.
Thank you so much.
Sani
Hi Sani, it’s not possible to book codeshare flights as a reward seat. What you’re seeing with the codeshare flights is points + pay which is poor value.
For true reward seats, they are only available in the same cabin (i.e. Economy or Business all the way, not mixed). If you book a Business reward, you’ll be able to use Book the Cook if offered from your departure port.
Some of your other question s about the basics of using Velocity Points are answered in this guide: https://www.pointhacks.com.au/velocity/how-to-book-a-reward-seat/
Another good reason to transfer to KrisFlyer is to avoid the hassle if SQ has any flight changes. If you have booked through Velocity points, you need to accept the changes through SQ then quickly contact Velocity to have them confirm the changes with SQ otherwise you might have part or all of your flight cancelled. I wasn’t aware of that and SQ cancelled part of my onward flights but luckily Velocity could rebook it for me although at a later departure time. Having a direct booking with any airline FF program is always so much easier.
Hi Brnadon,
Kris have recently added a $250 charge for Booking a RTW ticket. I dont mind the charge as long as their RTW booking service improves which was a night mare.
Cheers
If I transfer points to KrisFlyer how long will they last before they expire?
Hi Mike, KrisFlyer miles will last around 3 years from the date of transfer.
Thanks for that. That is what I hopped.
Hello. I moved 600,00 velocity points to SIA just before the pandemic and got around 364000 KrisFlyer miles.
I had to move them back as they were to expire and have only got about 234,000 back effectively losing close to 400,000 points. Have I misunderstood the transfer system?
That each time you transfer you lose points in the process? I figured going back to velocity I would get the same points back.
Appreciate any advice.
Hi Drew, unfortunately, your interpretation is correct. The transfer rate is 1.55 to 1 in either direction, so you will always lose points with the transfer.
Any news on when/if the velocity/singapore transfer ability will happen?
Hi David, we’ll update the website as soon as we know.
Hi Brandon,
I understand you guys will update the website when you know more however I’m hoping you might have a glimmer of hope for all of us hanging out for this transfer ability to resume!
Feel free to make my day!
Some info on the Velocity website on this now:
https://experience.velocityfrequentflyer.com/partners-offers/airlines/singapore-airlines#tab_transfer
Hi Jimmy, that info is the same as when we wrote the article. We’ll keep an eye out on the page when the new transfer rate from Velocity to KrisFlyer is added.
Hi Matt, thanks for the article.
Where do I find how many krisflyer points are needed to upgrade for osaka to singapore (787-10), then singapore to canberra (777-300ER) for example? either upgrade to business or premium economy.
Also, I think the singapore flights I bought on sale, therefore, are there exclusions with respect to even getting an upgrade – how would I check this, with KrisFlyer directly?
At the moment, I’m thinking of just leaving the points in velocity until I get clarification around this – as probably better to hoard points there as no hard expiry.
Many thanks
Brett
Hi Brett, you can find info on which fare classes are upgradable here and how many KrisFlyer miles are needed here.
Hi, if I book a SQ business class redemption via velocity, is it true that I cant choose my seats? I did a dummy booking and it says I can’t pick seats as it’s not a virgin flight. Is there any way around this?
Hi Karen
Yes, I believe that is correct. I would give Singapore Airlines a call and get their PNR for the booking, then hop onto the SQ website, enter your PNR to retrieve your booking, and select your seat. Alternatively, get the Singapore Airlines agent who answers your call to allocate a seat for you.
Hi Matt,
Just wondering how long out do you need to start looking for to book using your points. We have about 240 000 Velocity points. We are flying to Europe next month on Sing Airlines, but have put down our Velocity points numbers. Should we changed that to our Kris fly cards. We are also flying Business Class all the way from Perth to Europe and back. Just trying to find the best way to use our points for next year. Also would we be able up grade if we shifted our points over to Kris flyer.
Michael
Hi Michael Hall
We always recommend the earlier you start looking the better, however each airline releases their award seats at different times, but generally around the 1 year mark out. You can find further details on release dates here: https://www.pointhacks.com.au/when-do-award-calendars-open/
Velocity release their award inventory 330 days out, however are also known to release premium seat inventory and release them in the week before travel. Singapore Airlines release their inventory from 355 days out, so if you are looking to fly on Singapore airlines, by using Velocity points, you are locked out of inventory for around 25 days by which time those award seats may be taken. Having said that, Velocity points transfer to KrisFlyer miles at a rate of 1.55:1, meaning that you will devalue some of your points if you go down this path. Also, if you do decide to transfer your points over, make sure to check beforehand that Singapore Airlines does have award availability for your desired flight.
Hey Matt,
Do you need to be a certain status level with KrisFlyer to use points for a business or first class return flight Sydney to London?
I dont fly very often and my majority of points are in Velocity and i am not a high enough status to use them to upgrade my flight haul flights so i am looking for an alternative.
No, you do not need to have elite status with KrisFlyer to book premium cabin redemptions.
Hi all, I’m looking for some guidance regarding the velocity to KF transfer. I’m currently Silver KF and have enough velocity points to transfer to KF to meet the Gold qualification amount. Will this count or do they have to be flight miles.
To qualify for status, those miles must come from flying.
hi Matt,
How do you normally redeem Business Award tickets (SQ) for a family of 3? 3 separate redemptions using each person’s FF account or pooling everybody’s points into one account and make one redemption for 3 people?
Regards
Novi
You cannot pool your miles from various KrisFlyer accounts but you can pool your Velocity Points together. It is up to you which avenue you want to go down. Note that with KrisFlyer you can nominate up to five redemption nominees—more info here.
Its a bit unfair to say Velocity has devalued the points transfer, when its a mutual decision, Singapore airlines has elso devalued KF pints to VFF by the exact same amount.
Keith – I recently got an ANZ black rewards card that gives 2 points per $1 spend, and those points convert at the rate of 2:1 into Velocity points (ie. 5k gets you 2.5k Velocity) or 3:1 into SQ points.
I can also convert first to Velocity and then across to SQ and this looks to be a better formula, as shown in this sample calc :
50,000 ANZ rewards points gets me 25,000 Velocity (2:1) which becomes 18,500 when converted to SQ at the Velocity points exchange rate of 1.35 to 1.
Whereas 50,000 ANZ points converted direct to SQ at 3:1 gets me only 16,670 or thereabouts..
So I know how I will move those points around..
Hi Matt
we have followed your guide and got to the point of trying to transfer 205205 velocity points into krisflyer account , when we click the transfer button we keep getting an error message saying “the request contained invalid or incomplete information. Please try submitting request again”
What could this be? we have ticked teh box confirming the transfer but it wont allow us to proceed.
It could be because that it is a large amount of points—perhaps try a smaller quantity. If it still does not work, you can do it over the phone with Velocity for a fee of $20 or 2,500 points per transaction (fee schedule).
I am considering transferring my Velocity Point to KrisFlyer Miles.
It looks like you can use KrisFlyer Miles and cash for any ticket purchased through Singapore Air, as long as you have over 980 KrisFlyer Miles and select to use your Miles and Cash once you get to the payment page. Is this correct?
I know Velocity will only let you use your points on Reward seats and the minimum points needed is huge for international flights.
Once converted I would have around 140,000 KrisFlyer Miles which would hopefully cover the cost of one ticket and I could pay for the remaining tickets with cash. As I don’t need to buy a specific reward seat I should be able to just wait for a good deal before using my miles and cash. If you could confirm this, it would be great. Thank you.
You’ll get the most value from your points if you use them for an outright redemption, rather than using them for part-points, part-cash. However, it’s up to you how to use your points.
Both my husband and I tried to join Kris today, but having filled the form in ( 4 times!) we both got a greyed out box at the bottom where we should have been able to “continue”.
Any thoughts?
Maybe try a different browser or device.
Hi All, Just wondering if this process has changed as I cannot see the link to points transfer anywhere? Thanks in advance!
Just wanted to share my experience with transferring points from Velocity to KrisFlyer.
I attempted to transfer 500k points to KrisFlyer and got an error message pop up advising there was an error processing my request, and to try again. Before I could try again, I noticed the points got deducted from my Velocity account and it also showed a deduction in my transactions. However when I checked my KrisFlyer account the points were not there. Even after waiting 12 hours.
I called KrisFlyer but they saw nothing pending, so then I’ve called Velocity and they are now investigating the missing points and the turnaround time is 3 to 5 business days!
Next time I will try to book through Velocity where possible as right now I am short 500k points and I was trying to book business reward seats which were getting booked up quickly!
What an unnerving experience! Please let us know how it works out.
Virgin called me 1 business day later to advise that there was a system glitch and they have re-credited the points back into my Velocity account. Thankfully my flights were still available so I’ve booked on Velocity via codeshare instead (minimal points difference).
Good to hear! Thanks for the update.
My KF and VFF accounts are linked. If I’ve purchased a long haul flight on SQ, is it better to quote my KF or VFF number? Is there an advantage to earning KF points in this way, and then even transferring them to VFF?
Good question! It all depends on the fare class. Have a read of this guide to help you make a decision.
I have 15k Le Club Accor Hotel Points. It looks like I’d be able to transfer 1:1 plus a 15% bonus to Velocity and then obtain a better exchange from Velocity to KrisFlyer than if I transferred from Le Club Accor to KrisFlyer directly.
Do you see any issues or restrictions with me transferring from Le Club to KrisFlyer via Velocity?
I don’t see any problems in the KrisFlyer – Velocity transfer.
Hi Keith,
I’m currently a platinum member with Velocity & have just signed up with KrisFlyer in order to take advantage of this points transfer option. I’m wondering if I use my KrisFlyer points to redeem an ECONOMY reward seat on an SQ flight, would I still be eligible for the benefits of my Platinum Velocity Membership (ie priority boarding & lounge access), or because I’ve used my KrisFlyer points for the flight rather than velocity points/money i’m essentially considered an economy seat holder?
Thanks in advance!
Timothy
It shouldn’t matter how you have booked your flight – you should receive the same benefits.
i moved 30000 from VA to Kris a year or two ago when i was trying to upgrade a flight and only after i did it did they tell me that PE wasn’t available to upgrade until a couple of days late. so its hard for me to use them. how long do we get before they expire?
am flying economy SA in sep/oct with family so don’t expect i can use them then, but perhaps next may when i will have a business class ticket for one?
thanks
KrisFlyer miles expire 3 years after they arrive in your account.
I don’t understand the frequent flyer points system
I have 260k points, is that enough to get me Perth-Amsterdam return business class?
I have called the call centre and its soooo confusing
the other issue that’s hard to navigate is that I want to purchase the same fare for another person to travel on the same flights
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated
thanks
to be honest, all of this does my head in!
Hi Mike,
It can get quite confusing… we do have plenty of useful guides to help you understand the complexities of various frequent flyer programs.
For your specific question, you might get more responses if you post this in our Questions section where many others will be able to answer.
Cheers!
Sorry if the question has already been asked. If my wife transfers her KrisFlyer to her velocity and we have pooling set up to pool to my account, will the transfer go through? Or will the points be stuck in some kind of limbo?
The transfer should work fine and the points will end up in the primary family pool account.
Given the recent ‘devaluation’ of Krisflyer points (trade off 15% online disc Vs taxes) in March and the current Velocity promotion (22/3/17) off transfer points to ‘Velocity before 9 April 2017 and you’ll score a 15% bonus*.”
The transfer pre-bonus is: 1.35 KrisFlyer miles, you’ll receive 1 Velocity points.
More simply, the transfer rate is 0.7405,
With the 15% offer does the case now stack up to transfer to Velocity?
Chris, sorry ignore question re points, i worked it out. Just a question on the waitlist – do you have any experience of the waitlist and the chances of getting the seat?
Many thanks
Richard
Hi Chris, Looking at the example above Mel – Lon quoted 80,750 pts. Is this the figure before or after the 15% discount. Thanks so much
Richard
Hi Guys, does anybody know how long it take to appear the points on the other account after transfer?
It should be immediate…
Hi, would love some recommendations please!
We’ve got about 215,000 velocity points and are looking to fly to London return from Sydney, 2 adult and a one year old son end of July next year.
Looking to fly Singapore Airlines with a stop over in Singapore each way and fly out of Barcelona returning to Sydney via Singapore.
Which would be the most cost effective way to use the points we have? Straight Veloicty points and pay for what is left or transfer to Singapore KrisFlyer and do it through Singapore airlines direct?
I’ve tried to follow everything here, but it’s just confused me further as i’m new to the points flying.
Thanks in advance,
Chris.
Hey Chris – can I suggest you post this in the Questions section – you’ll get more visibility and answers if you do. Thanks!
Thanks Keith, will do.
Cheers
Hi,I’m a Silver member on both KrisFlyer and Virgin velocity.Is there a way of consolidating my points/miles to achieve Gold on either program a lot sooner.For some reason though ,whenever I fly on Virgin I seem to get points deducted and can’t seem to reach gold.Beginning of the year I had 440 status credits and needed four eligible sectors to achieve Gold,however 8 months later,flying two legs every month I’m down to 300 status credits.Quite strange because people I know that have started the program months after I have and travelling to the same destination have achieved Gold already
It’s hard to say what’s going on without seeing your account, but in answer to your question, there’s no way of combining status in both KrisFlyer & Velocity, just redeemable points/miles.
Great article! I have a Westpac Altitude card, am I better off converting my Altitude points into KrisFlyer points or to Velocity then convert to KrisFlyer?
Have a read about these recent changes to Altitude Rewards – I cover that off there 🙂
Thanks
Can you tell me if there is a maximum number of points you can transfer in either direction in any given year or transaction.
No maximum I’ve heard of 🙂
Hi all. Newbie question, I hope someone can help. I have around 100k krisflyer points, with 30k expiring at the end of August and another 30k expiring in November.
If I moved these all to my velocity account, could I give the points a new lease of life? Or would the expiration stay the same?
Sorry if this is a silly question! I’m new to all this.
Once you move them to your Velocity account they are then Velocity points, KrisFlyer no longer knows or cares about them, and they are subject to Velocity’s expiration rules, which off the top of my head are your points never expire as long as you have some activity in your account every 18 months. However, you will incur the transfer tax if you move them over so moving them back and forth is not an option for retaining them.
Hi Keith, I would love to find out how you were quoted 80,750 from Melbourne to London as it currently reads 150,000 points? via Kris flyer site.
Just did a search for a one-way, one-person trip MEL-(SIN)-LHR in business class, and shows up as 95,000 KF miles, which then with 15% online booking discount is 80,750 KF miles. You might have been looking at first class, which is 150,000 KF miles prior to discount, but 127,500 KF miles with 15% discount.
Both seem to be just under $500 in surcharges.
Hope that helps, Alex!
There is another reason to consider transfers to Velocity from Krisflyer for those who occasionally fly with another Star Alliance carrier. My family of 5 is flying United (17,000 miles) but is unlikely to fly them again within the next 3 years. I enrolled all of us in Krisflyer, earning 17,000 points each. They don’t have family pooling. But If I then transfer all 5 to Velocity (at 0.74 conversion rate 17,000 becomes 12,600 Velocity Points), then Virgin does family pooling, so I end up with 63,000 Velocity points in my account. This is a useful amount, almost enough for return flights SYD BNE for the whole family. Much better than 17,000 points that may be left to expire with United or Singapore Airlines.
Is it possible to earn status flying on an sia saver award business class seat booked with points.? If so, would it be possible to credit the status to another star alliance scheme such as Aegean to to bump up a tier quicker?
One major benefit of the transfer of points between Singapore and Virgin Australia is that you can transfer soon to be expired points from KF to VA, where points never expire if you keep the account active.
Sure you lose 35% of the points moving them from KF to VA, but this is better than losing 100% of them if you can’t use them…
PS: You can also extend the KF for 6 months at a cost of 12% of points (1,200 per 10,000 points extended) But if you can’t use them in the foreseeable future then a transfer from KF to VA is still better than nothing…
Hope this helps.
We should build a shrine to Michael Kao. Reading his comments are just scintillating. Hey, thanks you guys, I recently tripped DRW-SYD-DXB-LHR-AMS for 80,000 points AA points on QF1 in F. On the way back I switched to EK in F and did AMS-DXB-KUL for 127,000 QF points and had to do it hard in J on MH back to DRW :-). One thing I noticed was how much more the taxes were redeeming QF points v AA points. Like about 4 times as much!
Thank you for this awesome site, Keith. It’s my favourite…:-)
BTW EK has it all over QFin the F stakes…in case anyone was wondering.
Most of Point Hacks is essentially a shrine to MK. He’s a legend.
Does the transfer rate = the same velocity points accrued if I nominate to earn velocity points from the outset? I’m able to list my Velocity number with SA for my March flight, but if I’d be better off earning KF miles and converting, then I will happily register for a KF membership. TIA
Hey Stephanie – unfortunately it’s not that straightforward. SA might apply different earn rates for Velocity vs KrisFlyer for your specific class of ticket. The only thing you can do is find out the fare code (a letter, like Y or J) and then check with KrisFlyer and Velocity to see how many points you’ll earn in each program.
KrisFlyer also has a 5,000 point minimum conversion don’t forget too, although a trip to SA should get you over that mark I’d hope.
Hi Keith,
Can you confirm that for example. If i was to transer 100k Velocity points to KF that i would get 74k in points.
But after that transfer if i were to say change my mind would i get 100k in VFF points back if i transferred 74k in KF points back? The KF website suggests not.
Can you explain?
Hey Michael – no, you wouldn’t get the 100k Velocity back in that example. The 35% difference in transfer rate happens both ways – it’s essentially a transfer tax in either direction.
I am looking for KF redemption on star alliance partners. Is it better to earn KF miles on VA domestic flights or Velocity points and then transferring them to KF and 1.35 to 1 ?
Thanks for the help
Make sure if you guys do decide to go business in Singapore Airlines using KrisFlyer miles you pay for the whole flight. Upon investigation for my upcoming trip I saw that for me to upgrade my flight I would have to pay 45,000 Miles but if I got the whole flight it would only be 10,000 points more. Unfortunately I didn’t have enough Miles to get a business flight.
I am already an amex platinum reserve cardholder and I received the 110k bonus points with the velocity platinum card. So, even though the t&cs state Im not eligible for the bonus points, it doesn’t seem to be enforced.
Just to clarify that little clause about this only being open to NEW Amex customers within the last 12 months… Does having the more basic Velocity Escape (Amex) card disqualify me from the 100,000 point bonus should I decide to upgrade to Velocity Platinum? (Sorry, new to the card game).
Yes, it would disqualify you unfortunately.
Hi
Can you advise what the transfer time is from Velocity to Krisflyer?
Cheers
Jeff
It’s instant!
Yep, this is a great way to use Velocity points.
SQ Saver availability to Krisflyer members is much more generous and don’t forget the top up system for any points shortfall.
@Anita – Consider searching awards in first class when business not available, especially you have >1.6M points! (I envy you!) Although you might need to ex-SYD/MEL.
Otherwise, since you can transfer to VA points as well, you might as well take the 15% promotion and fly with Etihad. You will be surprised how wide open the availability is! Even though more points needed (but you already got 15% bonus points) yet you save a lot of cash from fuel surcharges. Depending on where you depart from, in next Jun and Jul you will have the new Studio business class, or you can indulge your self more with the Apartment! (And enjoy free chauffeur and spa treatment at AUH)!
Michael,
First would be nice….but flying with 3 other adults limits things somewhat….seemed to miss out on 2015….paid $…..end of qantas gold status anyway……
Also, need to fly 4 adults to the US from Aus in 2016 and 2016 june/july…..
Seems like the best option, reading your previous posts, would be to transfer enough points to Velocity in early April in 2015, and then 2016,, to enable booking flights business virgin to San Fran +/- east coast extension….
Any advice on this plan?
Anita
Anita:
Although you might want to consider taking the 15% bonus if you’ve decided to fly VA. Westpac don’t always participate and 15% bonus is as high as it gets so you mightn’t get another chance before Apr to Jun next year. When you are talking about this big amount of points, 15% is very significant! Also it is probably not too early to secure a seat now for Apr next year. If you find availability on the date you want, you should transfer points immediately and secure it ASAP. It takes a couple of days for the points to go through.
If your plan changes, all tickets are fully refundable (with $60 cancellation fee or 7500 va points with VA, or $30USD with KF) so it’s a lot more flexible than many discount economy tickets. That’s why I love award travel! I always secure the seats even if the plan is just tentative. It’s much easier to get refund than trying to find seats later on. But that’s me.
To travel with 4 adults is always gonna be difficult. VA releases 2 seats at a time (I think, check with VA to confirm) They may release more as time approaches if they still have a lot of vacant seats, but you need a contingency plan. If I were you, I would book 2 in J and 2 in PE. If 2 J seats becomes available later on, then cancel those 2 PE tickets and get these 2 J. That’s the only way you can be certain all 4 of you will be traveling together even if no further J seats get released. Altetnatively, you might have to split up the group and travel on different days.
The other alternative, as you have altitude points, is to fly to Europe with MH (altitude can be transferred to enrich program) I know MH is not very popular now, but their redemption rate is darn cheap (51000 one way to Europe in J!) and award availability is wide open. You won’t have trouble finding 4 J seats! Downside is you can’t cancel with MH. Once booked, you either fly or you forfeit.
Lastly, search the availabilities before you transfer the points. Who knows, you might be lucky to find 4 suites with SQ on the date and destination you want!
Michael
Thanks.
I have purchased qantas…needed to lock in the dates and at least get the lounge access and double status…..planned to use the points for the travel to the US for the next 2 years…
Could use the qantas $ elsewhere…but needed to lock in the dates….
Did not appreciate the 15 % bonus….could transfer the points and make 15%
but then cannot use for KF and costs 35% to transfer….
But if planning to travel to US, and need to book for travel June – july 2016, and then 2017….then is sensible to transfer some….(enough to cover business class x 4) before Nov 30…
Anita
Mark, How far in advance did you make the bookings? what level did you pay for your flights?
I have >1.6 million altitude points and wondered about using them to fly to europe june-july next year.
I spoke to Kris Flyer support, but In sept/oct all business seats were booked out, at any level. (saver and the more expensive redeem level).
i searched on their website, same thing…
As there is a 2 month lag from transferring points from altitude to kris flyer, I have not transferred yet…
Not going to use the points for that flght.
How early did you book in advance.
I have redeemed AMEX points via Singapore Airlines previously with great success. Always managed to get a first class seat on the days that I wanted to fly (have done it 3 times so far – June, July and December this year). Only restriction that I have found is that their appears to be very limited availability for first class seats on their A380 flights – no problems on their other aircraft.
CheekyT:
I can give you my recent experience on business rewards seats from Sydney to Dusseldorf with Etihad, booked for late August to late September next year. When I logged into VFF (Gold) there were no reward seats that show up, but when I rang, I was able to secure my flights within 48 hours of my proposed date of travel. For the outgoing trip, I needed to fly 4 days early, the return date was spot on. Within a week there seemed to be availability on one, max two days for business, more for economy.
I was looking to pay for half of the sector and use points on the rest but as they are considered 2 different bookings the price of the one way ticket is about 20-25% dearer than half a return ticket. So I paid for the ticket completely with points (250k) + 210 AUD in taxes.
The outgoing flight to AUH is on the 777 with the stripy seats, and the other 3 sectors will be on the new business suite (sweet!) – 787/380.
I note from the upgrade chart for SIA that it would cost 120k KF miles to upgrade from economy to business from SYD to say FRA (for the saver fare), which would be 162k VFF. What the availability would be like I would also be interested to know.
Cheers,
Matt
Would be interested to hear if anyone has any comparative experience for long haul business to Europe. I’m assuming that date availability would be key but if anyone has any general experience with the availability for business reward redemption for both and also points upgrade availability. I’ve been looking at Velocity business redemption and even where there seems to be availability it is greyed out and I’m not able to click the link… might be an issue with my status… not sure.
To me it seems they are being tricky. If you transfer from KF to VF 1.35 turns to 1. If you transfer from VF to KF 1.35 turns to 1. There is essentially a transaction fee of 0.35 points when you transfer. To put a different way each time you transfer KF gets rid of a liability of 1.35 points and VF gets a liability of 1 point and the same works in reverse. The airline is the beneficiary.
I have a small balance of around 1250 Krisflyer points expiring soon, and was hoping for a minimum transfer of 1000 so I could rescue them from expiry by transferring to Velocity. No such luck with a 5000 minimum. And with the 1.35:1 transfer rate, even if I top up Krisflyer from Amex so I can get the 5000 min for transfer, the conversion rate to Velocity to “rescue from expiry” means it’s still a losing proposition. BTW, no points in Velocity to transfer back the other way and redeem either, and no other plans for Krisflyer award redemption. I guess I will have to let them expire!
I just logged into my Velocity account (Gold) and under the “My Benefits” tab there is a Points Transfer – Airlines where you can link accounts to Kris Flyer and transfer. The conversion rate is currently 1.35:1 (VFF: KF) with 5000 points minimum and no quoted maximum that I could find (although it mentions the potential for one in the T&C’s). It was a very random pop up because I was only on the phone to VFF 48 hours ago to book a reward flight with Etihad where I was told by them that they had no details nor training re the impending rollout…
Thanks Matt!
Hi Keith it is mid November now have you heard anymore info about the Singapore Airlines and Virgin Australia points conversion scheme? Cheers Chris
Not yet… but they’ve got two weeks left!
I’m sitting on lots of Altitude points, and need to fly 3 adults to Europe June – July in 2015. Best place to transfer? What are the odds of getting upgrades and on which carrier?
Best place to transfer is to book the airline with availability for the dates/routes you want. Look that up first. I’d look for Krisflyer initially.
You are welcome.
I agree with you 100% there are strength in both programs. VA’s weakness is in Asia, especially after Jun 2015, EY will no longer stop over in SIN, leaving SQ the only option. Using VA points to redeem SQ is ridiculously expensive! 80,000 one way to SIN!!! No, Thank you! I haven’t tried but I suspect you will be charged fuel surcharges on top of that to fly SQ, and assuming VA has access to more award spaces than the other Star Alliance partners, otherwise there is no chance of redeeming any flights to Asia more than 14 days out. This is where transferring of VA points to KF will make sense.
Or, Let’s hope VA will use one of their A330 with the new business class to serve some Asian destinations! (Using A330 with suite like business class on a domestic transcontinental route is way over kill IMO!)
I can transfer Westpac altitude points at the same rate to Velocity and KF 2:1 interesting if this has any meaning.
Similarly Amex has the same transfer rate for Krisflyer and Velocity, (1:1), so don’t read too much into existing rates.
Or is the fact that CC rewards are on equal footing a good indicator of their value. If there was a higher rate KF to Velocity you could potentially double up by transfering CC rewards to KF and then to Velocity.
It’s almost unilateral comment that KF points are more valuable than velocity, and almost everyone’s opinion is that the ratio will be more velocity to KF. Many have predicted 3:1 ratio.
However, my view is different. I don’t think velocity points are as useless as we think. I used to think the same way and have unilaterally collect KF points as much as I can. But recently I have changed my view. The main advantages of velocity over KF are:
1. Better availability, especially AUS-US flights.
2. No or much lower fuel surcharges, which may outweigh the difference in points.
Let’s take BNE to LAX in business class for example. Velocity requires 94000 points plus $103.70 in tax, (or 110000 with no tax! ie. real free flight!) compare to KF which requires 85000 points plus $733.16 in tax and surcharges! A whopping $629.46 difference for a saving of 9000 miles! That is about $0.07/mile!
For the same route, VA has availability almost everyday if you book far in advance, where as SQ is still wait listed most of the time on saver award, and it is a lot more convenient to fly VA directly rather than via SIN and NRT! Also with the new VA business class coming up, it is arguably better product than SQ’s regional business class which is configured at 2-2-2 and with angled lie-flat.
And for USA route, you can combine DL flights in the same award booking, which gives you more flexibility than KF, which you will need to fly SQ metal, that limits you to only a handful of US cities. (Forget using KF points to redeem Star Alliance to USA, they won’t allow back tracking. The only SA airline that won’t be back tracking is Air NZ, and we all know how generous they are in releasing award seats!)
Next, we can compare BNE to LHR. VA requires 120000 points. I’m not sure about the taxes as I can’t obtain that online, but given that BNE to AUH is only $84.50, I don’t think it will be much more than $100 (it will be on EY, and EY is well known for not collecting fuel surcharges. Please correct me if I am wrong). SQ will charge 80750 miles plus $495.16 in tax. So the difference in 39250 miles will cost you almost $400, which at the end, the differences is probably not that much. Again, EY new business class “Studio” is at least as good as SQ’s business class, and definitely better than their regional business class, which SQ serves all other Australian cities other than SYD/MEL. (Also you get free chauffeur service with EY/VA, which will save you some transport/parking costs)
The value of KF miles really comes down to the ability to redeem first class suites. Unfortunately for poor unfortunate souls like me that lives outside of Sydney and Melbourne, which makes about 15 million of us, we don’t have first class service with SQ! Which means unless we fly to SYD/MEL (with the added costs of connecting flights +/- accommodation, and the risk of missing the award flight if the connecting flight is delayed/cancelled), we can never enjoy the benefits of first class suites as SQ don’t allow mixed cabin online.
EY on the other hand, do look after people outside of SYD/MEL, and they will offer first class suites to BNE/PER on their new B787. So in this regard. VA is still more useful.
I guess my point is, the benefit is definitely not just from VA to KF, the other way may be beneficial too. So I wouldn’t be surprised that the transfer ratio will be something like 3:1 both ways, or 1:1, but with a cap of something like 20000 miles, which makes it only useful for top up only.
Michael – thanks as always for your detailed comments!
You have it nailed I think. Velocity and Krisflyer are actually complimentary partners, and this is the reason the hookup will be useful, and I hope, successful. Each program has their own redemption strengths.
I can’t however imagine me moving many KF miles over to Velocity if the exchange rate is poor – it’s just easier to accrue Velocity miles here.
Praying for a 1:1 redemption rate – I love flying Singapore airlines!